Curse

Age · Jul 09, 2007, 09:55 PM // 21:55

I ask all thos who disagree with with OP as to why and why not have an open mind?I would say yes as I would say pre or around Ascalon should be turned into the same thing that Sing Jea Island and Istani Island are come on Prophecies is is not on par with those camps.It is out of date the only way you could return is by beating the game possibly.I ask why can a lvl 20 return to Sing Jea as well as Instani as well as go their guild hall.Prophecies is at a disadvantage as they can't return to their pre area and go their guild hall as Canthanian and Elonians can if this is the case then do the same to them.

I would go even further and have Prophecy char. ascend before getting to the Temple of Ages.That is why they all run to the Crystal Desert and Droks.Anet needs to revamp Prophecies.

MithranArkanere · Jul 10, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

A complete revamp. Yes:

- Green ending items.
- Challenge missions.
- Start missions by talking to NPCs (like at the end of PreSearing)
- Level 20 enemies and henchmen from Lion's Arch onwards.
- First 15 attributes from Ascalon City.
- Second 15 attributes from Yak's Bend.
- Going to the desert to ascend from Lion's Arch.

Aw... I can't remember more, but there are more.

Neo Nugget · Jul 10, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

goodness....i dont wanna afk for 700 hours to get new content.....

Killed u man · Jul 10, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordrax

As a LDoA title holder, I think the idea is bad. First Hardmode would mean that rare items could drop. Second Hardmode would also mean it was possible, not probable, but possible to get Survivor in pre and the LDoA title would be cheapended a little bit.

Rofl, u just made my day

U get the title AFK, how is it not cheap? U G E T I T A F K

Honestly, I think LS + LDoA is the logic solution, since LDoA = roflcopter? (Dlvling? o.0)

=> This area would be a GOOD idea, only 1 mission tough, because it is training, and accesable to everyone, since it's supposed to be training... I remember when I went to "Old Ascalon", I had NO clue what these mission where, I was too scared to try it (Figured I would loose money or something), and I still regret Anet not giving more information about these missions in Pre-Searing, cuz face it, NO-ONE reads the booklet

payne · Jul 10, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

/notsigned

really don't like this...pre-searing is a tutorial / learning grounds for newbs...it is not appropriate to add in an "elite" area to a tutorial zone...people play through "pre" to get a better basic understanding of the games mechanics, not so they can grind away hundreds of hours to access an "elite" area were it will be rare to see more then three people in at a time!

Age · Jul 11, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

/notsigned

really don't like this...pre-searing is a tutorial / learning grounds for newbs...it is not appropriate to add in an "elite" area to a tutorial zone...people play through "pre" to get a better basic understanding of the games mechanics, not so they can grind away hundreds of hours to access an "elite" area were it will be rare to see more then three people in at a time!

I imagine you would say /signed if you had to restart a new char or reroll a char through Prophecies again.Presearing maybe tutorial so is the lessons you get in Sing Jea Island and Istani Island they are all pre Islands it is just that they were though out better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
A complete revamp. Yes:

- Green ending items.
- Challenge missions.
- Start missions by talking to NPCs (like at the end of PreSearing)
- Level 20 enemies and henchmen from Lion's Arch onwards.
- First 15 attributes from Ascalon City.
- Second 15 attributes from Yak's Bend.
- Going to the desert to ascend from Lion's Arch.

Aw... I can't remember more, but there are more.

I really like this Idea it shows creativity along with melding pve with pvp have more areas in outposts and have a portal where you get pvp map sort of like AB.

ralesk · Jul 19, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

I see the point of some of the commenters — death leveling just doesn’t make sense really (it’s not much of a “defender” thing, really).

Now the reason I comment is to throw in another area that doesn’t appear to be covered on the forum (at least not according to the search system) and you people don’t mention it either: Pockmark Flats and Serenity Temple — or well, whatever is to the north of Ranik before the Searing.

If not for anything else, I’d love to see the area for my curiosity.

Hyper.nl · Jul 19, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

The LDoA title is extremely hard to get, and having special content for people who get the title means that only a very tiny amount of the GW players will be able to play it.

It's great that we have a title for exceptional accievements like LDoA, but don't exclude the masses from game content in this way.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jul 19, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

/notsigned

really don't like this...pre-searing is a tutorial / learning grounds for newbs...it is not appropriate to add in an "elite" area to a tutorial zone...people play through "pre" to get a better basic understanding of the games mechanics, not so they can grind away hundreds of hours to access an "elite" area were it will be rare to see more then three people in at a time!

I dont think u understand it, Yes presearing is a training area, however there is No training area to get used to Hard mode! On top of this to unlocked Hard mode u MUST have completed Prophecies, if uve completed it chances are u no longer need much in the way of the normal training, and yet Hard mode will be a new concept that u wil need to get used to.

Most people play through Presearing because A) there making a new character, B) they just like Presearing or C) there a new player, the majority of people who are in pre nower days are As and Bs. A Hard mode in Presearing makes perfect sence. You can say it would degrade the LDoA title but infact it makes it more meaningful since people actually have to do something tougher and more meaningful than just running to a creature and dieing over and over again. Anet favours Skill>time spent, as it stands LDoA stands for time spent and requires no skill what so ever.

arsie · Jul 19, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Maybe an alternative Pre-Searing for Hard Mode players. Kinda Vortexed there with some kinda time portal.

It's "identical" to the Pre-Searing, except that you don't have new players mingling with lvl 20s (they have their own real pre-searing).

Its for level 20s to enjoy the scenary and mood of Pre-Searing while getting spanked by Skales.

freekedoutfish · Jul 19, 2007, 10:18 AM // 10:18

The issue with leveling up to 20 and then getting access to max armor and max weapons in Pre-ascalon is that once you reach post-ascalon you have a distinct advantage over other players.

Atleast if you lvl to 20 in pre-ascalon, but still only have starting armor and weapons you are almost still on the same level at everyone else.

It would also take the fun out of prophercies, because most of the lvl20 content is at the end. You would soon get bored from being able to wipe the early creatures in seconds.

I can understand the LDOA wanting more stuff to do in pre-ascalon, and wanting more fun ways to level up before and after.

But I dont think we should overly incourage lvl 20, max armored and max weaponed players to be running around pre-ascalon.

Its a starting and training area!!

The end result would be cheating. You would have level20 maxed out players, offering to help lower level players (newbies included) with quests and runs and charging them over-inflated prices to do so.

It would incourage scamming and create a new way to create vast amounts of gold at the expense of less experienced players.

I dont personally mind the ability to reach lvl20 in pre-ascalon, but I dont think we should actively incourage it with lvl20 content in pre-ascalon.

You want to gently incourage people to move on from that training location and to venture into the game. Otherwise you end up with newbie players spending weeks and months in pre-ascalon before they even realise they were a whole other game waiting.

I say keep pre-ascalon as it is!

If you enjoy living there then great and enjoy it! But dont expect it to be anything other then a training zone.

freekedoutfish · Jul 19, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

I dont think u understand it, Yes presearing is a training area, however there is No training area to get used to Hard mode!

Em.... playing the game/campaign once IS the training for hard mode.

The idea is that if your capable of completeing the entire campaign, then you are capable of handling hard mode.

By the time you have played through a campaign, you should have enough experience behind you to know what to expect. You should realise "right well monks will be buffed up" and "mesmas will be buffed up" etc etc, and understand what that could mean.

If you play through an entire campaign and you dont feel ready for hard mode, then I'd be extremely worried about you.

You cant put something into pre-ascalon to train you for hard mode, because there isnt a hard mode aspect to it.

You go on about how pre-ascalon (the training zone) is just repetative after doing it a few times and you want a new challenge. What are you expecting? Its a training zone, Its bound to be repetative.

Its like doing the start of half-life over and over again.

Its like drinking a pint of fosters, loving and enjoying it. But then you get bored and dont get the same thrill, but you keep drinking it.

But then you think "I want them to change fosters, so its more exciting so I can regain the thrill I once got from drinking it".

You know what it is, you accept what it is, you like what it is... but you still want them to change it. But you could just go drink a different brand of alcohol instead and try something different.

Pre-ascalon is for training! If you and others are getting bored with it, then role a different character elsewhere, in another training zone. Or create a different profession.

You cant have high end gear and quests in pre-ascalon, because it de-values it as a training location and it will make it far too easy for lower end players to get help.

As I said above, in the other reply.... people would start paying lvl20 players to help them out and soon the "training" would be gone, because no one would learn anything.

You have to force players in pre-ascalon to all be on the same level, and equal to one another. You dont want maxed out players running around who can help them, and make them miss out on the learning experience.

Otherwise we get post-ascalon flooded with newbie players who have never actually made any effort to do quest, and got run through the entire training zone.

It would be like having an examination for university and having Hawkings rolling around in his wheel-chair giving out answers. You might pass the exam and get your degree, but you wont learn anything because you didnt do it yourself.

The thing I dont understand, is why your bothered in newbie players in pre-ascalon understand what hard mode is and need training to do it?

Why would a newbie player, who is level 0-12 need to be able to handle hard mode? Thats not something players need to worry about until they reach lvl20, by which time you would expect some experience in the game.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jul 19, 2007, 10:58 AM // 10:58

However Hard mode in Presearing is unavailable for new players since it requires game completion, they would never have a problem with hard mode. Hard mode in Presearing wouldnt be a Hard as post searing, but it would be a large step above normal presearing.

As for the high lvls helping low levels u get that there anyway, and you get it post searing even more so. All other training Isle/Areas are available in Hard Mode, Presearing is the ONLY place in the game without a Hard mode. This is presumably since its diffidult to get to lvl 20 there to make it available. For the training Hard Mode area the requirement would be something like being lvl 12. With ur limited skill selection and limited AL lvl the foes would be need to be still fairly low lvled (as in less than lvl 15) but enough so that they still give xp and maybe a Quest or two that give good xp rewards. Defenders of Ascalon should actually do some Defending of Ascalon, or the title should be renamed Legendary Suicidist of Ascalon (since u spend more time dieing than anything as it currently stands)

freekedoutfish · Jul 19, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

However Hard mode in Presearing is unavailable for new players since it requires game completion, they would never have a problem with hard mode. Hard mode in Presearing wouldnt be a Hard as post searing, but it would be a large step above normal presearing.

As for the high lvls helping low levels u get that there anyway, and you get it post searing even more so. All other training Isle/Areas are available in Hard Mode, Presearing is the ONLY place in the game without a Hard mode. This is presumably since its diffidult to get to lvl 20 there to make it available. For the training Hard Mode area the requirement would be something like being lvl 12. With ur limited skill selection and limited AL lvl the foes would be need to be still fairly low lvled (as in less than lvl 15) but enough so that they still give xp and maybe a Quest or two that give good xp rewards. Defenders of Ascalon should actually do some Defending of Ascalon, or the title should be renamed Legendary Suicidist of Ascalon (since u spend more time dieing than anything as it currently stands)

There is a very simply reason we dont have hard mode in pre-searing. Hard mode counts towards titles such as vanquishing and guardian.

You could only have hard mode vanquishing in pre-searing since there are no missions. But why do we need vanquishing in pre-searing when it wont count towards the vanquishing title for tyria?

And you cant go back and attain any vanquishing titles in pre-searing once you leave. Also hard mode creatures are all above lvl20.

Unless a band of LDOAs happen to find each other in pre-ascalon, then there is no way they would survive 2 seconds against a creature that strong. Most players are lvl0-12 on average in pre-searing.

Also consider players have limited skills, non-max weapons and low armor. How can they go up against a hard mode creature which is lvl20+, max armor, and max weapons and with elite skills?

Its completely unfeasible to have hard mode (as it is in other parts) in pre-searing. The players there are unequipped to handle it, even if they have LDOA they are still restricted.

You also couldnt do hard mode in pre-searing unless another one of your characters has completed that compaign. By which time, that character in question cannot return to pre-searing to take advantage of it.

Your arguement is that if players enter post-ascalon they wont have experience of fighting in hard mode!

A player cant even do hard mode unless their level 20, so that debate is void. Its not like a lvl12 character can enter post-ascalon, and jump straight into hard mode.

They have to level up to 20 first. By which time (I would assume, if they play the game right) they will achieve experience and be able to handle hard mode.

Also you're talking about having 2 types of hard mode.

One as it is now, where all creatures are over lvl20, elite skills, buffed abilities and improved AI. And another designed specially for pre-searing where I assume the creatures arent at lvl20, dont use elite skills, and the AI is a big dumper?

I dont see the point of that!

1) How does that give them any experience of playing the real hard mode, unless you pit them against lvl20+ creatures with elite skills? (which as I explained above isnt possible)
2) Lets assume these hard-mode creatures in pre-searing are lvl15+, with no elite skills, and a bit more intelligent AI.

That is no different to them finishing pre-searing, travelling to post-ascalon and reaching northern shiverpeaks and fighting some minatores.

Your special hard mode in pre-ascalon isnt needed. Your basically trying to bypass the same experience they get from actually playing through the storyline.

You only want this hard mode in pre-ascalon to make it easier to level up and get to LODA. Hard Mode in per-searing would be

1) Unfeasible.
2) Pointless.
3) Un-needed.

Pre-searing is a training zone and it doesnt need hard modes, or countless lvl20 players running around.

And again, lets assume they did add a nerfed hard mode into pre-searing where the creatures were less then lvl20, but above lvl15. How is that going to be any fun for a lvl20 character?

Your talking about adding content to pre-saering that only a tiny percentage of the players there could take advantage of. Its not worth the effort.

Sythius · Jul 19, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

/unsigned.
Good idea, but it's too late now.
Any change to Pre would mess up the feel and atmosphere of pre.
You would just get tons of pro players trying to group up an such.
This could scare new players, or atleast make the playing experience more hash and such.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jul 19, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

There is a very simply reason we dont have hard mode in pre-searing. Hard mode counts towards titles such as vanquishing and guardian.

You could only have hard mode vanquishing in pre-searing since there are no missions. But why do we need vanquishing in pre-searing when it wont count towards the vanquishing title for tyria?

And you cant go back and attain any vanquishing titles in pre-searing once you leave. Also hard mode creatures are all above lvl20.

RoT has a hard mode, it does not effect Vanquisher of Elona (although it counds for Guardian) it proves that Hard mode in pre doesn’t have to effect Tryia Guardian/Vanquisher at all.

Yup Hard mode creatures are above lvl 20, reason for this is You must be level 20 to access it, creatures that were already higher level that you were only increased in level very slightly compared to creatures that were low lvl originally. IF you must be lvl 12 in pre to access HM (after completing the game with ur account) then it stands to reason all creatures in Pre HM will also be above lvl 12 eg. Lvl 15 etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Unless a band of LDOAs happen to find each other in pre-ascalon, then there is no way they would survive 2 seconds against a creature that strong. Most players are lvl0-12 on average in pre-searing.

Also consider players have limited skills, non-max weapons and low armor. How can they go up against a hard mode creature which is lvl20+, max armor, and max weapons and with elite skills?

Its completely unfeasible to have hard mode (as it is in other parts) in pre-searing. The players there are unequipped to handle it, even if they have LDOA they are still restricted.

You also couldnt do hard mode in pre-searing unless another one of your characters has completed that compaign. By which time, that character in question cannot return to pre-searing to take advantage of it.

Theres a lot of LdoA go-ers in pre searing nower days, theres a large number of people u see asking for trips over the Wall and or Partners to go Charr hunting. The Average player in Pre is lvl 1-8, anything above lvl 8 takes considerable time and is generally people with perma presearing chars, people going for LdoA or people who just like to Farm Charr.

*woot Idea*The lack of Armour or lvl could Easily be sorted, all u need is a blessing style like the one from the Consultant Docks mission (Sunspear Battle call becomes Ascalon Battle Call

). This could allow the HM presearing creatures to be lvl 20+ so u can ignore my bit above about lvl 15 creatures, although u would still need to reach a set lvl before HM opens up for you. There are max weapons in Pre, and there are also bonus weapons too. The Lack of skills isn’t really an issue since after all this is Hard Mode, u have enough skills to Succeed a few HM quests u don’t need any more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Your arguement is that if players enter post-ascalon they wont have experience of fighting in hard mode!

A player cant even do hard mode unless their level 20, so that debate is void. Its not like a lvl12 character can enter post-ascalon, and jump straight into hard mode.

They have to level up to 20 first. By which time (I would assume, if they play the game right) they will achieve experience and be able to handle hard mode.

Nope my point is players then can learn or train for Hard mode, In the pre searing Area it can explain Hard Mode, such as Creatures attacking 33% faster (or whatever the increase is) If you enter HM normally u have no real idea what the difference is between that and normal mode other than it being harder. HM training will show u HM creatures are higher lvl, faster moving, faster attacking etc. etc. this entire area is optional, u can ignore it if u wish and just go head 1st into HM with the very character u complete the game with. Upon unlocking of Hard mdoe a little dialog box could appear saying HM Training in Pre is now unlocked. Any person would then know they can make a new char and go see what this Hard mode is all about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Also you're talking about having 2 types of hard mode.

One as it is now, where all creatures are over lvl20, elite skills, buffed abilities and improved AI. And another designed specially for pre-searing where I assume the creatures arent at lvl20, dont use elite skills, and the AI is a big dumper?

I dont see the point of that!

1) How does that give them any experience of playing the real hard mode, unless you pit them against lvl20+ creatures with elite skills? (which as I explained above isnt possible)
2) Lets assume these hard-mode creatures in pre-searing are lvl15+, with no elite skills, and a bit more intelligent AI.

That is no different to them finishing pre-searing, travelling to post-ascalon and reaching northern shiverpeaks and fighting some minatores.

Your special hard mode in pre-ascalon isnt needed. Your basically trying to bypass the same experience they get from actually playing through the storyline.

This is no seperation from Pre Hard mode and Post hard mode if u go by my above idea, creatures can still be lvl 20+ and have the increased AI, which also can be explained eg faster AoE evasion. Your point about going to Yaks is kinda redundant since by the time get to Yaks ur high enough lvl to easy wipe out the locals. HM in pre the Creatures will always be higher lvl than u, no matter what you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You only want this hard mode in pre-ascalon to make it easier to level up and get to LODA. Hard Mode in per-searing would be

1) Unfeasible.
2) Pointless.
3) Un-needed.

Pre-searing is a training zone and it doesnt need hard modes, or countless lvl20 players running around.

And again, lets assume they did add a nerfed hard mode into pre-searing where the creatures were less then lvl20, but above lvl15. How is that going to be any fun for a lvl20 character?

Your talking about adding content to pre-searing that only a tiny percentage of the players there could take advantage of. Its not worth the effort.

Pre already has numerious lvl 20s running around, this idea is for an introduction to HM while making LdoA a respectful title rather than the pointless and contradictory to Anets skill>time spent policy title it is now.

I agree chances are Anet wont add this feature but that doesn’t make it any less desirable or any less of a good idea. You may not agree with me and I may not agree with u, but I still can respect ur opinions plus it keeps the mind creative and allows good new ideas like the Ascalon Battle Call

Griff Mon · Jul 19, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Pre-searing is its own little world now with a one way gate that some choose not to go through.

I have a character at lvl 17 there, and I am going for the LDOA title, but it is a patience title and nothing else. Death leveling the Charr has made it possible to get experience faster as opposed to the old and still commonly used way of death leveling a strider or spider.

I am dying to get out of there and move on, but the title is getting close and I will hang on. Once you hit level 19 you do all the quests and that makes the trip from level 19 to 20 somewhat shorter.

What people want (and I don't think it is a good idea) is a way to get their experience faster without having to go to bed with a death level set up every night for months on end. Anet could easily plop some higher level monsters into the catacombs or northlands and people would grind those kills out to shorten the time it takes to get the title. Frustration tends to take over when you see how long it takes to get to level 17 and realize that 18 and 19 are going to take even longer.

What might be a good idea is a weekend event where there is a special high level monster that drops some cool consumeable item somewhere in every zone every time you zone in sugar, booze, etc. You would have to hunt for the critter to find it. We have had double lightbringer points, double experience for elites, etc. These people get a brief window of time to rush their title tracks and it wouldn't hurt too much in pre to give us a chance to rush the title track.

mikkyld · Jul 19, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

You make one mistake.
Your accomplishment wasn't respectable in the first place.
Getting lvl 20 in pre is grind, and nothing else. It's spending countless hours repeating the same really easy trick. I don't see how that's respectable. If it shows anything, it shows that you have too much time. It doesn't make any sense lore-wise either. You're making your enemy stronger, and as a reward you gain a title? need I say wtf?
Making lvl 20 accomplishable in pre 'legit', but very hard, perhaps a repeatable elite quest north of the wall, could change this. Now the LDoA title would actually represent skill, instead of countless hours of grind. It'd have to be really hard though.

Initially I mostly agreed with the guy who said leave it be but I find myself compelled by your argument. It truly isn't noteworthy to make your enemy stronger by going to bed and then awaken to kill him for XP - except in the determination and initiative shown by people who did so without a guide telling them how.

Still I think he was right to say that if you want greater challenges, then going to Tydus and heading out into the "real" worlds of tyria, cantha and elona seems best. Still, it does make sense to add more limited titles (like one solely available in pre) which are EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT to accomplish. Make another requirement of your new tough mission or quest that the character be a survivor and I'll sign up for sure.

Age · Jul 19, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

I would even go so as to integrate PvE with PvP only using RP char and no where near the Battle Islands.It would be more arenas and battle maps for guilds and parties.

MithranArkanere · Jul 20, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

The Bonus Pack Mission take you to the past.

This would be exactly the same.

Tal to Symon the Scribe and travel two years back, as he tells you the story.

It is not necessary to let player go where the Prophecies characters are being created, it could be a 'mirror' copy of PreSearing for the characters coming back.